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11:13 pm
January 7, 2013
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RegularGuy
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Hello,
can you please explain what effects do data mined hands have on your HUD color coding (frequencies) and ranges? Since observed hands show only the winning hand at showdown I believe that importing hands on player X will strengthen his entire range and the frequencies of premium hands. So for example your custom made 4 bet range stat is kinda useless since if the villain has won the pot at showdown he had a strong starting hand more often than not. Can you please confirm whether I'm right or wrong? Is there anyway, except not using data-mined hands, to combat this? Thank you for your time.
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5:33 pm
January 8, 2013
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blood
Admin
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The Destroyer uses all KNOWN hands for its denominator / observed hands: winning, losing, and even willfully shown before showdown. So, no, not just winning hands like you say.
So if I 4-bet jam on you with A4s, and you call and we see a showdown, you will see A4s is in my 4bet range.
And if strong hands show up more often than not in a 4bet range, it's actually because most people 4bet strong hands far more often than bluffs.
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7:22 am
January 9, 2013
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RegularGuy
Member
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Thanks for your fast replay but I still quite don't get it. I'm aware that the HUD shows all known hands but I'm talking about datamined hands specifically. If we import an observed hand which goes to a showdown we usually get to see only a winning hand as the losing one is mucked (unless shown by the player). Of course, there are quite a few instances when the losing hand is shown as well and to be honest I don't really know all the conditions but to name just a few: players are all in before the river and have “show hand when all in” option checked (at P*) or let's say the river went check/check and the player with the losing hand will be oop. Nevertheless, in some cases the losing hand won't be shown and that's what I'm asking about.
Let's say we have a maniac, who never shows his hand when he is all in. He got stacked two times by AA vs his J4o and 72o but as we weren't at the table we didn't get to see his hands. Now the third hand he has AA, stacks off pre and wins. All of those hands were 4 bet pots, 4 beted by him. If we import those hands we can probably observe quite high 4bet % but won't your 4 bet range stat show it strong, since we have observed only his AA hand?
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10:30 pm
January 13, 2013
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blood
Admin
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Ok, I feel ya. This is less a problem with the Destroyer and more a problem that losing hands are mucked in datamined hand histories. But even so, I wouldn't think it's too big of a problem. ANY information is better than none, but you will want to weight hand strengths taking into acount that if you have a lot of datamined hands on a player, some of it will lean toward stronger hands… but not too much really. Because “strong” hands still lose x% of the time, and so weak hands will show up albiet at a slightly lower frequency. But the color-coding really just compares frequencies and is used to make a rough judgement at the time of decision-making. It's MOST important to know that hands HAVE shown up in prospective range, that is, it may not matter how often a hand has shown up, just the simple fact that it HAS will give you some guidance. And finally I used these stats to give me guidance when making a hand decision, still factoring in stuff like position, tendencies, board cards and previous actions to get a semi-firm read on my opponent's range.
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8:37 am
January 14, 2013
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RegularGuy
Member
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Thank you for your last post. I agree that the most important thing is knowing how the villains range is constructed. I made this thread cause I wasn't sure of how big the correlation is but now I think I have a decent grasp.
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